SPEAKER_01 0:00

Uh do you know how you changed my life? I think we talked about it briefly last time.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Well, I I remember us meeting the first time in Chicago at the Takeria place.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Yeah, I had just seen you on stage do a reading at Carnaval, and then we went to get tacos in front of Victory Gardens. I mean you were like, Do you know about Brene Brown? Yes, the power of vulnerability. And I was like, what is that? And I went home and I Googled the TED talk about vulnerability, just sobbing. And I was like, what? You changed my life.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

I just talked about it the other day to someone who's very well informed, and they were like, Oh, I know her. I've never heard of that one. I'm like, look it up. Telling you, it's gonna, it's gonna shift things for you.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Definitely look it up. When someone can go from a Tennessee Williams stage to a network procedural interrogation room without blinking, I pay attention. Welcome back to Ilse Will Say, the podcast where we talk about acting, identity, pizza, and the emotional stamina required to do a solo show about your childhood without spontaneously combusting. Welcome to my brain. I'm Ilse, your host, your fellow multi-hyphenate, trying to balance stage dreams with self-tapes and your wait, are we doing Chekhov or Chicago PD today, friend? Today's guest is one of those actors who moves with range and roots. Born and raised in New York, Colombian American, bilingual, grounded in theater, but fully fluent in TV drama, you've seen him on Madam Secretary, Blue Blood, Chicago PD.

unknown 1:50

Pd.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

The old man. And if you've been in a dark theater in Chicago or New York, you've probably felt his work there too. He's done Odepes El Rey at the public theater. He's been on stage at Steppenwolf and Goodman. He wrote and performed his own autobiographical solo piece, Empanada for a Dream, which casually made top 10 lists like it was no big deal. He's an actor who builds from the inside out, a writer who's isn't afraid to go personal, and a teaching artist who clearly believes the work matters. Please welcome the deeply rooted and wildly versatile.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

That is an intro. I want that recording, I want that as my my my uh ringtone.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

And boy, could I have added another like six paragraphs to that? I swear. Um, you are everywhere, you're everywhere um all at once. Uh it is awesome. Yeah, dude. It no, and you're incredible. And like I said, you like changed my life by introducing me to Brennan Brown, a fellow Texan. Um, but okay, this is the first stupid question I have for you. This is real stupid, and I'm so excited. How do you get off when you walk into a room? You have so much charisma and like command attention, but with the like with with so much kindness and respect, how do you get off?

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Well, I gotta say, the power of a pause, because you started with how do you get off? Pause, pause, and I was like, oh, okay, this is this is one way to start. Um uh I did not, I don't know if anyone has said that to me, so uh I'm so I feel like the majority of spaces I I can be I I feel awkward unless I know people there, then I'm just looking forward to seeing people there. And that's that's fun to catch up with folks. But if it's like I don't, I'm not sure who's gonna be there, I can just be kind of to myself.

SPEAKER_01 4:13

I can be a little uh I've never thought of you as awkward, like I've never been like, oh yeah, Juan is awkward.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Well, maybe I'll rephrase it and say, like, I'm uh I am protective of my energy and and thereby I don't wanna be hurt. So meaning I'll try to like go into like a neutral state um because I've been in situations where I'm like, oh hey, what's going on? And then someone either gives me a cold shoulder or kind of like gives me a thing of of like uh and it's like and it and I end up feeling like so bad, embarrassed.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Is it like on set?

SPEAKER_00 5:00

No, no, no, no. On set, I but I on set I try to do it the same way because I just don't know if someone uh will do the same thing, but I don't expect them to know me. I just think, oh, well, we're on set, we're working, like we should be happy to be here, and that's not that's not always the case. When I was understudying at the public, all these celebrities were coming after the show, which was like I would normally feel like I shouldn't introduce myself, I didn't perform. I I'm just gonna like just leave. And I was like, no, I want to meet these people because I want to either thank them or I just want to be around them and see how they are, and I will tell you, man, it was pretty amazing to see per your question or your observation about me. Um I think I would say the same thing about Ethan Hawk, Lupita Niongo, Sandra O, um uh Tom Hanks, man. That dude was there and commanding a stadium, pretty much, and was so generous with him himself and his thoughts, and uh um and and so there's the usual, like everyone gets together, introducing, he makes positive comments about people, makes a joke, observation, and then usually most of the celebrities they get the big photo together and then they they'll they'll leave. And time and we did that, and then Tom Hanks lingered, not running away, and then he goes to the crew, to the crew and goes, Hi, um uh my name is Tom. Uh what what do you what what's your position here, responsibility in the crew? And they were like, like so taken aback, and he he was just so attentive and respectful, and then he's like, he said, Do you want to take a picture together? He initiated it. And I was like, Oh my god, like he is making everyone feel seen, he respects, he's curious about everyone, he remembers from like you know, when we met 20 minutes ago to when I reintroduced myself, he's like, Oh, yeah, I remember you. You're under studying John. I don't know if I should be rooting for you or scared for you. And it's like, yeah, yeah, sounds right. And then we take a picture, and it's the most serious face on his that he has on. I'm like, you were just laughing for so long. You take a picture with me, you're like, so serious. But I I don't know. It was just a good reminder of oh, I I like having that energy, that what your observation of leading with the heart, and I think we're all equals. And and it, and if someone um doesn't want to talk to me, I just gotta like take it in stride and go, you know what? I don't need to be around them. I could just go to other people who I'm sure are willing to talk. Um, but I'm glad it comes across like how you described described it of me getting off on being that way. Um I I appreciate that because I wasn't like that as a kid. I was so scared, so introverted, such a nerd. Um, I was scared. I was very, very, very, very scared of a lot, but I was curious about people.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Mm-hmm. And I think that it shows you're kind of you're saying you come in because you've been burned, as as have I. Um like it's that openness though. And you you're curious enough to approach and then feel the vibes and and then react accordingly, right? Um, but I think when when you are number one on the call sheet, like let's say when you are the lead, I can sense like a peace and a calmness on set or on like the stage, because at least for me, I've I've been in shows or on set where the number one is shit. Like they're awful, they're awful people, and everybody's like on pens and needles and just trying to get through the day, or the number one is incredible and super warming, like Tom Hanks, and you can feel it in it kind of reverb I can't say that word, reverberate um throughout the entire cast and the crew. And I like got teary-eyed thinking of Tom Hanks that way because like that's what you want, and I hope like I I wanna be the number one on a call sheet and be able to give that to people as well because I think that that is the only way to work because the people that are shit, they're kind of shitty. Yeah, yeah, they might last a few more years, but there it's not like the longevity's not gonna be there.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Yeah, like when I shot um SVU last year, watching Marishka on set was like I hadn't seen someone command uh a set that way. Um, and she was very involved in each scene, and it was the first episode, so they all came back from vacation. So this is like day one uh of everything, and I was working really hard to again just protect my energy because I had the first day was like a heavy scene, uh like the emotional sort of scene of the episode. Not the but for my character. Um and I watched her work with um the the survivor, um, the actress. So I watched from a distance and I I just saw like all this energy and just like talking through and just all this stuff, and like, what if blah blah blah? What do you think of talking to the actress? And so I'm like the energy, I feel it from way back where I'm at. And so I was like, Oh, I gotta be ready for uh it being run that way, and so um cut to we do we they're they're finished, uh, and then we cut to to doing my scene, and she knows her set and she has her process, she's had years of doing it, and so she's a jokester, she's a very, very, very funny, as you maybe see in PTSR interviews. She's hilarious, they all are, they're all hilarious. But when they say, Okay, uh camera's rolling, she immediately shifts to being here, ready to go. And trust me, that my inner child wanted to play it and joke around as she was joking around with everyone, but I was like, no, I don't know if I can make that switch as quickly. And I I think the priority is the work, but then potentially uh the people that I get to know, and because she shifted and now so I was ready, and then we were doing a few takes, and uh she like um she sat somewhere in the back and uh while they were setting up and she just gave me like a thumbs up and was like I said, Oh, uh me? She's like, Yeah, you're doing good work, and uh I was uh I that meant everything uh to me. And then she says at a certain point, another setup of shots she tells the cast, the other series regulars, and then she asked me, She's like, Do you know the actress who was who was um in the scene earlier and who's playing the survivor? I said, No, I don't know her. She mentioned her name and she she was like I threw so much at her. I threw so many redirects, I threw so many ideas, and that can be pretty intense. And she took it like a series regular, she made the adjustments, she did what she had to do, she was a delight, and she's really talented. She was like a series regular, so she was uh you know, give giving the flowers to the person, and that told me, oh, she knows she knows how this works. And and then I met other guest stars of the episode, and they talked about how intimidated they were of her. And they were they were they were like one person talked about how in his self-tape he did it this specific way, and then in the for to shoot the scene, um, they gave him an activity and he kept fumbling and was just like, I can't believe she's I'm acting opposite Marishka, you know, and then and she was like you know, throwing out ideas the way she does, like she's like an acting teacher the way she talks. It's like an acting teacher very excited and just like uh challenges, and but it's really like just like curious about it, and so it has that you need that play energy back, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Like you need to give her that play energy back, otherwise it it can be like, oh, she's giving me directions. Like, no, no, no, no, no. She wants to play.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

That's exactly what it is. So, but she saw him kind of retreating and kind of flubbing, and he said, He's telling me the story. He said, She noticed because then she goes, Hey, do you do you have any kids? And he said, Yeah, I have I have two kids. She's like, Well, I have one of my sons is here uh working as a PA, he's a teenager. Let me introduce you to him. And he said, He she introduced him to him, and everything changed for him. And so that tells me she knows who she is, how she comes across, and she wants to get the best out of people to get the best story. And that I was like that is someone who is good at uh as a phenomenal number one on set. So uh to your point with that, uh um was just a good experience for me to witness someone do that, who's do about the work, but it's also like a little social and make tries to make people feel comfortable as opposed to making everything about the work. Everything has to be serious. It's like you gotta find time to chill and relax.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

Well, we're gonna start the real grilling process here. There's gonna be no play in this next section. No, we're about to do hot cakes. Yeah, we're about to do hotcakes. And like hot takes, but they stack up. We're gonna put 60 seconds on the clock. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

As can be.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

Stage or screen? Pick one.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Stage.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Sweater weather or short shorts weather?

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Sweater weather.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Best movie ever made. Who'd win in a fight? Bigfoot or the Luckness Monster?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

I'm rooting for Bigfoot.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

Who who's got better food? Chicago, New York City, or LA? I know I went there.

SPEAKER_00 15:48

I gotta keep it in New York.

SPEAKER_01 15:49

Sarasau guacamole.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

Sarasa.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Best song to get you to the dance floor.

SPEAKER_00 15:56

Uh oh, uh scenario by um um Tribe Quote Quest.

SPEAKER_01 16:01

Should people stop using the word spicy to describe actions and just keep it to food?

SPEAKER_00 16:09

No, I like it. Now that you said that, I never thought about it, but I'm like, no, keep it, keep it, keep it.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Okay, quick pause. I gotta shout out our sponsor, Mezcla Media Collective. They're doing the work to make Chicago's film scene actually look like Chicago, supporting a community of over 750 women and non-binary filmmakers of color with resources, connections, and opportunities. Basically, they're making sure that the next generation of storytellers has the tools to blow our minds. Go check out Mescla Media Collective and support the people shaping the future of film. I want to get in deep with people. Like, do you have any like paranormal little rabbit holes you're going down on right now?

SPEAKER_00 17:08

Uh did you see about Obama making a comment about uh uh Area 51?

SPEAKER_02 17:15

No.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, he made a comment about aliens. Now I'm trying to remember what he said because of course, then the other person, uh Orange Peel, uh comments on it and saying like he should not be talking about that. That's uh that's secret, the secret file stuff, and it's like, oh my god. But I didn't watch it in in context with what uh how Obama said it. I just saw the clip. So I was like, all right, I gotta see what the content is. And he has a very dry sense of humor, so I have no idea.

SPEAKER_01 17:44

If it's real or not.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Correct. I think it is. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Oh my gosh. Um, do you have any stories that are your own in in in that realm of like aliens, conspiracies, ghosts? Do you have a ghost story?

SPEAKER_00 18:00

No, the closest thing would be um would be uh in my apartment that I grew up in in LES, um where uh the clo there's a clo there's a random closet there, and I don't know why it's so deep and it just gets full of stuff. And I remember noise being in there, never checking in there, because you just get lost in there. That's how big it is. For new for a New York City closet, that's like a big deal. But, anyways, um I one one night opened it, and I look up and I see like the silhouette or shadow of like a bat, like something like that, just sort of doing this. Like Batman. I mean, he is one of my favorite characters, um, despite being a very entitled, entitled person, entitled Rich Boy. Um, but I definitely freaked out. No, but it didn't inspire me. I just like got scared and like ran away. You know, now that I think about it, like it could easily be the shadow of the the top of the door, the edge, and it just looks like that I'm opening it, like it looks like it's doing something like this, but I've never uh forgotten. Yes, that's exactly it make it sound, it didn't make a sound, although I thought I heard noise in there, but um but I'm constantly getting like chills uh at different places um or things like that, but no, I can't say there's one that's terrorizing me, aside from my nightmares when I get nightmares about zombies um chasing me and endlessly, like anything I do doesn't work um until the uh either I die. Yeah, either I die or I um kind of have like a night terror where I'm frozen and I can't do I have those two and I've had it where I am just resigned to just being like I just gotta like I can't keep fighting. I've had all those variations, I'm sure it's always a reflection of what's going on in my life at that point.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Yeah. I my the zombie dream that kind of stays with me is like find out they're zombies, go to this house on top of a hill with my best friend, Lidio, and we like go in, and this is years and years ago. We go into this house and there's two machetes, and so I grab the two machetes. And my friend, me, yeah, and then my friends, like no, I she's got like a bow, she's got like a long distance one, and I have a short distance, she's got long distance and I got short distance, and then I just like start hacking with two machetes like Sean of the Dead style, you know, it's like a little speaking you when you have to. Yeah, yeah. But every time I have that dream, I'm like, man, why can't I pick like a long distance like weapon? Like, why do I have to get so like so close to them? Uh why do you think it is like the danger? I like the danger.

SPEAKER_03 21:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

It's the address. Yeah, no, but I get that. And the the the paralyzing ones are also terrible. Those are those I have gotten a few times.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Yeah, it's where you can I know for me when I'm in between where I'm sort of sort of awake and sort of still in the dream while being uh attacked, those are I mean it's like once a year, maybe that, but if things are intense things are going on in my life, like if I'm creating my own suffering, uh that can happen where I'm sort of frozen in that in that state.

SPEAKER_01 21:42

I think it's technically because you're in like deep sleep, and in deep sleep you're you're you're doing like physical uh your your body's like restoring itself and it happens towards the beginning of the night. Um and if you wake up from that, um I think it's deep. I think it's there's one there's one section of of the like the your dreams or the your sleeping state that paralyzes you because you have very vivid dreams. And so it it's supposed to paralyze you so that you can have the vivid dreams without like sleepwalking or or acting upon them. So yeah. So I just got an Apple Watch. So I'm monitoring my sleep. Um and and that's what I've learned. So you probably like stuck in that that dream in that sleep mode, and like unfortunately wake up and you're in that like paralyzing moment because your body's trying to keep you safe from acting upon those dreams, but you woke up.

SPEAKER_00 22:45

Well, I've been told when I was much younger, especially as a kid, that I would act out the dreams a lot. So it makes sense that oh that now my body's like, dude, you're an adult, like just chill.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Calm down. We're we're working through a couple of things in your brain real quick.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, like dreams. You're on stage all the time doesn't mean you need a stage in the bedroom.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

So I want to go back to like the the conversation we were having at the top where like you kind of go in uh with go into a setting or like place, you know, with uh not guarded, but you know, protecting yourself. Um how do you have such awareness? And what do you do when like it doesn't go your way? Like how how because you I think you have high high self-esteem. Like I think you're very kind, you're very sweet. Like I just I've I I yeah, yeah, why are you laughing? It's true. So like I guess I don't equate the two.

SPEAKER_00 23:55

I don't equate high self-esteem with kindness, um, but I never maybe that'll help me.

SPEAKER_01 24:01

Like hurt people, hurt people. Um so if you're like jaded and and mean, it's like probably because you're doing some like because you're probably hurting and mean to yourself. Um so that that's how I kind of draw the two parallels there. Um so yeah, how do you have that awareness and how do you keep your, you know, like yourself in in a in good spirits um without you know flying off the end and thinking you're the shit and people should bow down.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Well, it's funny because I I think I I used to see people in a similar way. Like your question is a perspective that I've I've had that question when I was younger. Um and then I would see people who I looked at as that they were very um confident in themselves. And I I think at times I was like, Oh, why do they think they're such hot shit? Um, even though they haven't done anything wrong. It was just literally me just going, you know, like my opinion of myself was like and they're just like and and going after things that they deserved. And I I eventually had to just go, I don't think they're I think I'm worried I'm gonna come across that way. But maybe if I start exploring 10% of that, of what I actually have to admit that I want, um I might not come across the same way. I gotta try it. I'm doing I'm making choices out of fear. I want to do it out of positivity and love. Let me see what happens. And it's um it's scary because I'm I was used to for a while just kind of like living like this. Um very small, very small, but kind of like, why is the world making me feel small? Why are they making me feel small? It's like nah dude, you're doing it to yourself, man. Um then I started like uh uh I had someone who told me once, like, uh stop navel gazing, you're constantly navel gazing, and I was like, what does that mean? Like they're like you're staring at your navel because you're down here, like all like this. Your head down, your head, you're bowing down, exactly. And I was like, Oh, and then I finally like made the change, and I could feel the wanting to go back to the this posture and this narrative, and I had to resist.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

Like bending down, like head down, and you kind of had your shoulders back, yeah, and kind of um what it the Iron Man light coming through your chest type of situation where like you're standing tall.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

Is the other one, like uh um um or some all that stuff, like it just opens you up, and I can see when I finally started doing yoga, I can see why it can feel scary and why it can be kind of a freedom, and so but then I I left myself open for I didn't know what to do, so that when someone just does one little thing, I'm like I just was very hurt and and just like see that's why I won. You can't like open yourself up to everyone, and then eventually just kind of realized no, I can. I just not everyone deserves my my joy, my love. Doesn't mean I have to be mean to people, like that's not there's not those are not the two choices, it's not binary. It's like I just gotta be present and then it'll reveal itself sometimes, and sometimes I lead with the heart, and I'm like, you can be shitty to me, and I'm just gonna roll with it, and just like okay, cool, bye, you know, and I'm not gonna sweat it. And then sometimes I'm like, what the fuck is their problem? Why'd they why are they being that way with me? And I know I'm like, okay, like let me just adjust. But then people like the woman that I met outs, like she's so she was so appreciative. Or the other end, seeing how Tom Hanks was to to folks, and it's just going, I go, that really makes a difference, and the right people will get something uh out of it. And it's it's made a difference for my career, it's made a difference for my relationships with with friends, um, the types of friends uh that I make. Um and then even uh relationships, and that's when your heart's really at stake, is when you're in a romantic relationship. That that's like the next level for me of like, oh, I gotta I gotta I want to keep that same openness and trust someone who has my heart in their hands. Um and I and then the heart that I have in my hands, their heart that I have in my hands. And that's like the next one, because I can't say I've been consistent with that. And that's that's like the next part of my life that I'm like, I I that's my intention going forward, how I am with friends and strangers, I want to con hold on to that in my in my romantic life. Um, because I think that I want I want that relationship. And if I'm just three percent friendlier, there was a a guest on a pot podcast that I heard, and she said if people were three percent friendlier, it just would make a real difference. And that for some reason, yeah recently, this was like a few weeks ago, I was like, Oh, I like that, even when I'm getting in an argument, it's like how can I be let me tell myself to be three percent friendlier and let me see what it does.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

And that's huge. I love that. Yeah, well, I I what really stuck in that what you said was some people don't deserve my like love and happiness and and joy, and that that's a lesson I'm still learning to decipher between and it this is not like like you said, if it's a stranger, you know, I'm I'm happy to be kind to them and and think, but uh for for a longer relationship, like I've had to learn the hard way, like oh, as a like from a friendship point of view, like oh, maybe maybe they don't deserve like all the love I'm pouring into this relationship or this friendship, um and still being open and honest and kind and still leading with my heart because we can't be wounded all the time. Like we also just have to heal and and and keep moving forward. But that is a lesson, that is a hard lesson, and like protecting my energy, myself, my heart, my joy, because I am a very joyful person, but I have felt, yeah, I have felt somebody to just like come in and just snatch it for no reason. Um so yeah, and I and I I second and third that you are like what I want to be when I grow up. Uh and then and then when I met you, when I met you that that one time having tacos the only way to start a friendship.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

You don't break bread, we break tacos.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yeah. Like you you really demonstrated what it was to be like a leader. Like you really demonstrated what it was to be uh a kind leader in the industry.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

I say sometimes like, oh, I'm a good right-hand person. Um and and I and maybe in some ways I'm selling myself short, but I also I think in these one-on-one situations or like a little group dynamic, I love getting to know folks and and but people who actually are curious. Like you're you're not competing. I never got an impression you were competing. You are collaborative even from the beginning, and and I I think that is important. If it feels like it's someone who's competing, whether it's with themselves or with anyone out there, that's that's a different ball game, and that's for them to figure out. But I I'm interested in the folks that are collaborating in life, you know, and I feel like that's the vibes that you've always given in this podcast. Clearly reflects that, and that's why you have the the halo around you.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Uh well, thank you so much for being on the podcast. This has been so much fun. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

He's just, I know I say this every time after an episode, but he's just the best. He is the best. Talk about being a number one. Like, come on. That's how you show up. That's how you show up. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, if you giggled, uh, please like, subscribe, review. It means the world to me. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And don't be a be a nice person, just like Tom Hanks. Why not, right? Until next time. Bye. Ilse Wilson is an Intrepid entertainment podcast produced and edited by Jacob Cagle, music by Eric Facus, and photography by Joel Masonet, and I am your host, Ilse Sacharia Rivera. The views and opinions expressed on Ilse Wilson are entirely those of the host and guests and do not reflect the views of any employers, sponsors, or innocent bystanders. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said here should be taken as professional advice, expert opinion, legal guidance, or a reason to DMSU conspiracy theories. We're here for the laps, y'all. Carry on