SPEAKER_00 0:02

Um any promo preferences? Uh can it be easy? I'm sure is gonna be is it can be or is it can it be easy?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Can can it be that easy? Okay, got it. That easy, even easier. You know, the easiest. Um that is the main thing, and um for people to like sign up for book info if they wanna, I'm gonna be doing giveaways and all of that. Um they can just go to thehowlinghive.org slash book.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Okay, I'm already tired uh from hearing. You're like, I'm I'm 22 podcasts. Just tell them. Yeah, I'm like 22 podcasts, I'm doing giveaways. I'm like, that's so much effort. Um today's guest says she lives somewhere between flying off into the never-ending story and sitting quietly with a really good raspberry. She also tells people to think of her as their luck dragon. I have zero questions. Actually, I have like 40. Welcome back to Ilse Will Say, the show where creative people come to talk shop and maybe get their energy read along the way. Welcome to my brain. I'm Ilse, your host. And my DD character speaks fluent draconic. So technically, I'm qualified for this conversation.

unknown 1:36

My guest!

SPEAKER_00 1:38

I'm not so silly. Okay, my guest grew up in Northern Virginia, studied theater, and fully planned to move to New York. Then she visited LA once, fell in love, and that was that. She's acted, written, directed, and produced, including writing and starring in her own LA comedy web series. These days, she calls herself a creatrix. She's a Reiki master, a human design specialist, and the founder of the Howlin Hive, where she helps people rewild, that's right, rewild their intuition and actually finish what they started. Her clients have ranged from, get this, heads of presidential campaigns to the founder of the underground art battles movement. And my guest today, boy, does she know what all of them were looking for? Can it be that easy? Please welcome Barbara Howlin. Best intro ever. Yeah. Those other two 22 podcasts don't have anything on me. So let's start with what is a look dragon and how do I become one?

SPEAKER_01 3:02

For those of us that grew up on the never-ending story.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

I don't know what the never-ending story is. I was gonna Google it, but I was like, should tell me. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Oh, I'm just delighted to tell you. And I can't wait. My inner kiddo just like gasped. The gasp I just gasped inside that your inner kiddo is gonna get to experience the never-ending story for the first time, especially just with everything happening. It is such a beautiful, poignant story about staying connected to your creativity and your own intuition. And it's about this little boy whose dad keeps telling him to keep his feet on the ground and this idea of groundedness, but he just loves stories. And he runs off one day to a bookstore and steals a book called The Never Ending Story and skips school and ends up hiding in the attic of the school reading this book, only to be taken to this never, this never-ending storyland that's all about all the things you could possibly imagine live there. But something is attacking the land called the nothing. And this darkness is eating up with the creatures and all of it. Yes. And uh we go on this beautiful journey, and there's a luck dragon named Falkor who gets assigned to our hero there, Atreyu, and we'll just like show up and scoop him up and bring him good luck when he needs help. I know. Oh my god, goes all over. So what if we all like have this luck dragon trying to help us, or we need to seek out the luck dragons in life again to like invite in some help and some ease. Is this a TV show, a movie, a cartoon? A movie. It's a it's a phenomenal book. I highly recommend the book, but there there is a great movie made made. Oh my gosh. Okay, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Okay, yes. I get why you said that. Okay, yes, with the ease and all that, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. Okay. Before we get into too much into that, because I'm so excited. Um, can you tell me like a little bit about how you went from Virginia to LA and now where you at and how the all that happened and in 60 seconds and no kidding? I was like, wow.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

A lot of luck, I guess, would be the answer. Yeah, I grew up in northern Virginia and I always wanted to act. I mean, I was definitely the kid in the basement acting out all of the movies, watching, I watched everything on repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, and wanted to like put on plays with my friends. And it just was always my calling. I went to um school in Virginia for a theater degree. Kind of always thought I would end up in New York just because I'd been there so much to see plays, and and yet I visited LA once and became very aware compared to the older people that I knew that were living in New York. Do I want to be poor and warm and on the beach, or do I want to be in the middle of nowhere in Brooklyn right now? And I just went out to LA because honestly, theater will always be my first love, but I really was always called to film. Speaking of the never-ending story, I just think it's magic. I ended up out there and dove in, and I will always love acting. But what I say to a lot of people is even the dream became this pressure point for me. Like it started to lose the enthusiasm I feel with the never-ending story. It became like tunnel vision. I wasn't letting myself do the other creative things I wanted to do, which was write and act and produce and direct. I wanted to try all of it, but I really had this tunnel vision.

SPEAKER_00 6:37

And so it was first-tunnel vision was acting or what yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

This idea I like to say of capital P purpose. Like again, speaking of that movie, keep your feet on the ground, be realistic. If you're an actor, be an actor. Like be a hundred percent. Do the thing, yeah. Take it seriously. Yeah, this is your career, and like it really leashed everything out. Um, and it it really the first time was the artist's way doing it many years ago for me. That shifted everything. And I went, I want to be writing, I want to be doing other things. It was just going on artist dates and dating. I mean, yourself in LA isn't is never ending. I mean, it opened up so much in me that I started writing and then I wanted to direct, and then I was producing. Uh, and honestly, as it does for a lot of people of its own accord, everything that didn't fit just started to fall away. The relationship at the time, the job, all of these things. And as like my aperture opened and this path became bigger, you know, acting really just became 10% of what I wanted to do. I did start um teaching acting. I love actors, I love creatives, and I love teaching it. But myself, I kind of went, I think I need to take a break. I need to do these other things to like um reignite that fire in myself. And really, it was just through starting with actors and starting my own artist way groups and did a and incorporating all these tools I had done of really healing for myself, becoming a Reiki master and learning human design, all these things. I realized the root of I was just encouraging people back to their own instincts and their own intuition and realizing there is no formula, like the formula I was trying to push myself into around acting and all of it. And and that's how I just became passionate about what do you know? What's your knowing? You'll say. We were talking about it outside of this, who is my most authentic self today? And can I choose to share from that and shine from that? And yes, hopefully in community and places, be of service and create from that, and also know that that's ever changing. If I try to put myself as look, as the industry, as so many people want to do, because it's just easier to understand and yes, at a broader level, control us to be like, tell me who you are, define yourself, put yourself in a box. And I think a lot of it is going, no, I will not. I will I will forever be checking in with do I believe that? Do I want to do that? What does it feel like in alignment for my purpose today and letting that expand to me now?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah, yeah. But it's it's tough. What is it called when uh you don't want to change something because you've put a lot of time and effort into something? Uh the it's something biased. Yeah. Not confirmation bias, but it's something biased where like you've put in so much time into let let's say like me, I've put in so much time in acting that if I were to give that up, I'm I've quote unquote wasted all of those years. When in fact, like most of the actors, I have a lot of friends who decided to move away from acting, but they are thriving in the field that they have chosen because of all of the uh skills that they've acquired with all of the her their other hobbies, their their other passions, and I think they just build on each other. I don't think that like you said, who do you want to be today? Like who what is authentic for you today? It's not that I'm gonna forget everything that I've gone through. It's just builds on itself.

SPEAKER_01 11:17

Yeah. I think what's open for me now, the the best metaphor and come up with about the path, I always like to referring more to my path and me releasing comparing my path to other people's, more than like, what's the purpose? Which sounds like some faraway mountaintop peak that you're not at yet. And the path to me that feels the opposite of that, I like to think of ant farms actually, which is the more I'm willing to dive into myself and uncover these layers, yeah. It does feel like going down kind of into the dark. Again, intuition can only give you like one step at a time. But the more I follow one tunnel and like the spiral path of creativity, say it's writing bare, but then this other tunnel appears, and I'm like, yeah, that tunnel excites me now. And I try it and I do that new endeavor. Usually it they all connect back and I'll come back to that writing tunnel and be like, oh, that's the film that I was writing because I did all these other things. God, we have again when I talk about this idea of like the faraway mountain peak you're supposed to be getting to, we all are like running up this exhausting, never-ending hill and hustle culture and just mainly productivity guilt for so many of us. I know, I know that and yet when we talk about rewilding back to our intuition, you're just never gonna hear, feel, be connected to your intuition when you're in that. If we don't learn to slow down and be, and it takes it actually takes so much effort, I feel you, and for all of us, I call it now like I just need to go empty out, empty out everyone else's energy or being around others. For me, I like just sitting in the back in nature, anywhere in nature you can go and be in the emptying out, then I can like hear and feel the intuition again and those great pings you got around your script and like just sort of have a dialogue with your deeper intuition than this head, which is so loud. And yeah, I always say the head's always gonna be louder than the body, so we have to slow down.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

And you mentioned briefly uh the artist date from from the artist way, which is how I know you. I uh was in your class for the artist way, and it's like a three-month uh I call it like a journaling club for like folks that like aren't in the industry um or don't know what it is. Um and then you take yourself on artist dates. So what you're talking about going to the like the going to the forest, like that could be an artist date. Like anything can be an artist date. And I highly recommend I'm I'm talking to myself because I I want to go on an artist date this week. I was like, I haven't gone in two or three weeks. Like go on an artist date, take yourself on a nice long walk, like do that thing that is fun. Like for uh during our c the class, I went to a toy store like three times. I asked my artist date, and I was I was like pretending I was buying things for like a child, but it was really me. But everybody can just do the you're allowed to do the thing that you want to do, and I sometimes think that we put these pressures on ourselves to do the thing, quote in quotes, that we're supposed to do. Yeah, yeah. So with that, how can it be that easy?

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Well, well, when listening to the artist state first, this is great because I think it's completely connected what you're describing. Like, I loved your toy store adventures, and I felt that too. I was always like, I wasn't allowed to have Play-Doh growing up. It was delightful to buy my I love the smell of it. I love just playing with it. And at one point, I just had jars like that. I'm sitting at my desk right now, um, those plastic things of Play-Doh on my desk here to just pull out and play with Play-Doh as a reminder of that emptying out, of releasing productivity guilt, of inviting in play and flow, which is the real, you know, creative process, which is when the inspiration comes, which is when in life we're able to receive, and it can be easier. But we are so taught it can't be that easy. You can't just be delighted and in a flow state and be at the right coffee shop and meet the person and get the job. And I'm like, Well, you can actually, and there's so many stories of it. But if we don't counter these limiting beliefs and again let that loud brain stay in those old spin cycles of black around it, we we are still white knuckling and there's just no room to receive the help and the synchronicities and the ease that wants to come in.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Well, I heard I heard somebody else say it um like to to an actor specifically, it's like um like sometimes the reason we want to struggle is so that when when we do make it, it's like look at what I've done to get here. Because those are the stories that we hear. The story that we don't hear is what you said, like run into that person at the coffee shop and like oh, there you go. You know, and then you're like you hate that person because like, oh yeah, it was really easy for them. And I'm like, you can't you can have that too. Yes for everybody.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

And and you bring up an important point, which I'll share about like my book that's about to come out and writing it. Where did that first impetus come from? It actually came from facing the feelings that don't feel good, which for a lot of us, especially as creatives, is envy, is the jealousy we talk about a lot, also in artists' way. And I actually saw a post of Brene Brown's of all people. I'm not doing anything, yes, but I'm not like doing stuff just like her. But I saw her post that she had yet another book coming out, like her fourth book. And I was like, What? Did she just have a book come out? How did she write another book? Exactly. I had this physical reaction I got, of course, off Instagram, did the emptying out, and I went, that was interesting. What was that envy about? And I had to listen to my intuition and be like, do I want to write a book? Oh, and again, still the first thought is, no, see, I thought for Brene it looks easy, it's gonna be hard for me. I had never written a book. I and the answer was like, I have to use these tools in and out to up the antenna and receive, but it can be easier in that. But I had to face my envy first as like a doorway.

SPEAKER_00 17:25

But it's a it's a um compass. Yeah. It it's not a bad thing. It I mean, it is a bad thing if you fester and then you like you know become a stalker and things escalate. But like Renee Brown, you were the reason I don't Yeah, like I didn't achieve anything. No, but if if you use envy and jealousy as a compass, then sometimes it's easier to know where you want to go. Yeah.

unknown 17:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:52

Absolutely. I think a lot of the time, or at least how I was brought up, those feelings that I was told were unacceptable or just that inner kiddo, which to me is connected to our intuition being like, please, please, please just listen to me.

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Mm-hmm. And sometimes we hear the night like the I don't want to say negative, because feelings are not negative, but we we listen to that maybe painful feeling more than than the happy one that wants to say, like, hey, I want to write a book. You're like, Well, yeah, whatever. But if you're like, Oh damn it, Brandy Brown, you you listen to that voice a little louder, sadly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

Yeah, I think it's whispering a new doorway. And again, that doesn't mean it's not gonna be vulnerable. It's always gonna be vulnerable. But is it I like to say the right kind of vulnerability where I was like, oh god damn it. I know I'm supposed to do this and walk over that doorway, and it's just gonna be vulnerable.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Well, I'm supposed to do hot cakes, so we're gonna do that real quick. It's like hot takes, but they stack up. We're gonna put 60 seconds on the clock. Are you ready? Oh god, I hope so. Best raspberry in LA. What?

SPEAKER_01 19:12

Uh as I moved from LA. I mean Driscolls.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Never-ending story scene that still wrecks you.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Oh, um, him with this isn't gonna make any sense, but the childlike empress holding one last grain of hope in his hand.

SPEAKER_00 19:29

Best Virginia food.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Oh the closest seafood, crab cakes.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

Most haunted spot in LA. Um, The Magic Castle? Go-to song for from your pinup dancer days. What? Did you not? I had I saw that on your bio.

SPEAKER_01 19:50

That was one of my best friends. I was never a pinup fancy. That would have been fantastic, but you were wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Most overrated wellness trend in LA.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

Oh, um, then it all has to be meditation.

SPEAKER_00 20:07

LA spot with the best energy. Oh, uh, the lake shrine. Can you reiki a ghost?

SPEAKER_01 20:20

This is great. I don't know if it's reiki. Something with ghosts. I could be like, go away. And it works. You can set boundaries. This is actually, I need to think about that. Have I been rakey in ghosts? Maybe.

SPEAKER_00 20:39

Thank you so much for playing. Uh, that was just so fun. I'm crying. And with that, we get a little weird on the podcast. And I know, um like I know it's just so sudden. That's a great question. Uh um, yeah, like what is the most woo you get? Do you have any ghost stories? What do you believe in? What um let's get you were like, you know, in the when we were introing, you were like, uh, we'll get a little witchy, like what? I don't we don't get to talk about this stuff. We're like talking about the artist's way and all that good stuff, but I want to get weird.

SPEAKER_01 21:27

Let's get weird. I mean, I'm open to all of it. If you could like see my desk right now. Um name the things. I mean, obviously, there's tarot decks, there's all the crystals. I was just holding a crystal they're right in front of me. You know, here's the oils, here's some things we burn, you know. I mean, it's all right here. And that's what I will say. I just think the woo gets a bad rap when we're all engaging, we don't even realize it in what would be considered like ritual, spell work, magic, on especially us as creatives. Like you get up there as an actor and just have this body and this feeling and this voice, and you literally alchemize a room to have other people feel these things, it's goddamn magical. So that's what I would say too. But as far as the woo goes, I I think once you start to open the aperture, like I said before, you become less judgmental. That's how it For me, I became less skeptical. I am still a huge questioner, but that questioning became like a curiosity with everything. And honestly, as someone who is no longer religious, I really liked this term omnisci that I go with often, being an omnist, which is the more I open to this, it's the belief that truth can be found in any belief systems or religions, but no one organized thing could hold all of the truth. And I went, that's what I feel now. And I just like being a curiosity seeker with all of this, going, I have done trainings in like, you know, psychic and mediumship and these things. I really feel like my morning pages, I've said it in group. Now I call it the page and a half aha, which is once I dump the brain out, I really feel like I'm kind of channeling in pages, whether that's with intuition, whether it's with my guides. I posted a video this morning. I don't know if you saw it, which is when I sit outside and do my morning pages, like the animals come, you'll say. I get signs. I know a little lizard jumped right up in front of me this morning, and I was like, oh hey, there you are. Lizards show up, hummingbirds just come. I've had one zip so close. A few weeks ago, a hawk like dive bombed close so close to my head, my hair whipped, and I start laughing, which is like to me, that is my channeling time, like communing with nature.

SPEAKER_00 23:43

Heck, yeah, man. That's awesome. So this is this is what stops me from the woo. And I've never said I don't know that I've said this, but like the opposite of it. Like the opposite of enlightenment, the things that you know, my mother warned me at night, uh, a very religious woman being like, no, uh, you should not meditate because then the devil will come into your thoughts, and things of that nature. I was raised like that. Um what do you say about that? And how do you maybe focus on the good and focus on the positive?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

I think I think some things that are our innate gifts, a lot of us, regardless of which it is, were raised in some belief that, like, oh, you should be scared of that, you should be ashamed of that. Who are you to think that you inherently have some divine connection to nature? Like, you're not sure. Who do you think you are? Yeah, who do you think you are? And you'd be like, Well, we just do. I mean, I have a four-year-old right now, right? You'll say, and I I see it in her all the time. And I think inherently we have this higher, deeper connection, whatever anybody wants to call it, when we're a kid, but it's how it gets shut down with that fear you're describing and the shame. And so I was raised that way as well. And I speaking of doing Reiki on ghosts, I think that this is very funny. I mean, I still haven't done that. But but I do believe what I said. The more I engage in this, and again, I just like to call it upping the antenna, um, you realize how much significant power you do have. We even say that in an artist's way. You're co-creating with the universe. I don't believe in some universe god that's like a finger wagging, shaming parent. I think we have so much more power than we realize, which can also be scary. And if we start to realize that and take some responsibility with it, then when you start to engage in things like Reiki, which is really just life force energy and balancing your energy. I believe anyone can learn and do Reiki on themselves, but you are get very boundaried before you invite that in too. You go, I am only uh inviting in pure loving life force energy. I am like, and it works. You are setting boundaries, and we use the word boundaries a lot, right? In group. How can you also just start doing that magic? We're talking about the woo in your day-to-day life. I always talk about being a screen and not a sponge. If you're like, God, I have to show up at this place, but this person is always a crazy maker, and then I leave drained. Start doing that for yourself and like, you know, in Celtic they call it a time. Draw that like white light circle around yourself and be like, not today, Satan. I'm not taking in other people's frustration or anger or bitterness, and like feel the difference. You really have so much more power over that.

SPEAKER_00 26:25

So, real quick, what does it mean for you to be a decently happy adult in the world that we live in right now? And how do you sort of achieve that? I know. I dropped in you dropped in your good one.

SPEAKER_01 26:39

When it's been, I I will just share, honestly, it's been really rough the last uh, I mean, obviously for all of us, the last 10 years, 10 years you could say, living in the United States, but especially over this last week, I will say for me personally with things, and uh we have to be so boundried with our energy in this information age. We cannot be drinking from a fire hose 24-7. And I know it for myself and I feel the difference. It's also very different to be taking in this videos, videos, images, and these things and what it does to my nervous system than knowing, okay, of course I will show up and be a connected and informed citizen and do things to take aligned action and be part of the change. But who do I trust to read this from? How do I trust to get this in a different way that doesn't feel like the fire hose? Which is also really just making us users on these apps, keeping us distracted and disconnected. So uh the simple answer is a community. Like I think we we are seemingly so disconnected, um, but claim we're connected because of these things. And I know for myself, uh look, I just moved a year ago and I instantly was like, new community, it's vulnerable. Put yourself out there. Where are the groups? Who are the people that are like spirited? Like, and a lot of us have it's vulnerable, but we've lost that community connection and community care. I know, uh cannot be vanquished by the darkness that may feel pervasive right now. It's so the never-ending story. I know it's everyone else who's listening, you get it, you get it. Like the nothing cannot win if I know these tools that I'm talking about of staying in my self-sovereignty, like slowing down, doing this energy work to actually walk out on the world and keep my heart open and be connected in community. Like nothing can stop that light, but we are sure in I I've just been calling it the great shakeup of like a new world, I really believe is being born. But we're in such an uncomfortable death rattle, we really have to come together in community and also unplug from this thing that's keeping us so addicted. Actually, I said in my book, if there's one simple thing about rewilding, quite literally, I'm just like, look up. We are so disconnected. We're literally staring down, and you talking about the coffee shop, looking at this thing when the love of your life could be standing right in front of you and you're not even gonna make eye contact, you know. You're fucking scrolling on your phone. I know. We're so disconnected and we feel disconnected. Maybe there's not a lot of nature around you, but there's something to like stare up at the sky and be in a little bit more awe and bigger connection feels imperative.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

Yeah, yeah. Well, I am so excited for your book. Um tell me more about it. Where can people get it? What do you need us to do? We're here. Great.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Armies assemble. This is the he'll say army. I have no idea. Um, it's called Can It Be That Easy, which, yes, a provocative question in the midst of all this. Can it be that easy?

SPEAKER_00 29:40

The first time I heard it, it made me angry. I'm not gonna lie. It made me so angry. And I was like, no, Barbara, it cannot.

SPEAKER_01 29:49

This is where we get into nuance, right? Our brain, you were talking about that confirmation bias. Our brain wants to be like, no way, because it hasn't ever been before this. So how could it be? Look what's happening in the world. It can't, there's no ease. There's no absolutely. And uh, trust me, like me 10 years ago would be like, no, it can't be toss the book aside. And again, what I would just ask people is like, how do we get back to that place of nuance, which is also so uncomfortable to sit with two things can be true at once, which is we're not and there's a whole section in the book about it. I call it actually the systems that bind to look within ourselves at these things and be dismantling what we're talking about, the spinner systems. I agree.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

I would hate that chapter. I would be like, You're trying to make me change and be a better human and God actually succeed in life and finish the thing that I started. How dare you?

SPEAKER_01 30:41

I'm gonna be that person or everyone. I will be your Jiminy Cricket. You can just mad at and kick me to the side and then pick the book back up with me.

SPEAKER_00 30:48

Yeah, and then you're like, ah, this makes so much sense. I could have avoided all of that hardship.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

Well, that's the thing. The rewilding part is yes, all this is true, and acknowledge and dismantle these systems within ourselves we're living in. And you were born connected to something bigger, higher, deeper, all around. How do we rewild and get back to your innate gifts, to your intuition, to that sense of connection? I don't think it went anywhere for any of us, is what I'm saying in the book. It just needs a loving jump start. So the whole book is a 12-week journey about returning. I know I see your face, you'll say. Yeah.

unknown 31:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

It's a 12-week journey with short, short sections. You'll say, I know you were the short, they're short. I'm like just laying it on people. And then there are writing prompts because we are talking about journaling, or I say going for a walk and talk, literally moving the energy out of your head back to this sense of embodiment. And it gives people the intro to Reiki. I'm asking people to just try doing energy work on themselves for five minutes a day to get back into a sense of alignment. And then it talks about your unique human design, right? Which is like the map of you. What are your inherent gifts and how your energy wants to flow? So, in general, the rewilding is just a return to yourself and getting radical and affirming your way and listening to your intuition.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah. I five minutes of Reiki, I'm like, oh, that's so long. But like if you like stand in front of your computer, you're gonna be there for two hours, and you're like, where did that go? Um and rewilding, I just think of elephants because they're like they always know where they gotta go. You just gotta get back into that flow. That's it. Yeah, yeah, let's all be elephants. Um, yeah, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much, Barbara. I am the silliest.

SPEAKER_01 32:40

I love it. Are you kidding? This is all takeaway too, I will just say, um, from so many podcasts, from like I'm already doing doctors to this. I I think I was saying it to you before. That it's really just bringing up in me too this idea of adulting becoming professionalism and all that. And it's such, I know, it's still the same culture of cool of being a teenager, which is not the authenticity. And the second I start talking to anyone, it doesn't matter who about creativity or these things, you see something just like shift and that professionalism fall away. And again, we all want it, we all want to believe, and we all want a deeper connection and that inner kiddo lit up again. It's been good, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Yeah, I love it. I love it. Yeah, that's why we get weird here because it's like everybody everybody's like, okay, this is my log line of my film, and I've said this 10 times. And then I'm like, but like, do you have any ghost stories? And they're like, when I was five, and then you really get to see the person behind the that mask, that professionalism, that high school. I'm supposed to do this, uh, I'm supposed to look a certain way, sound a certain way. Yeah, and this is so much fun. Thank you. Thank you. And anybody um who wants to sign up for it, the howlinghive.org slash book. Did I get that right? Mm-hmm. Yes. Okay, awesome. Sign up, y'all. It is amazing. Also, if you want to take one of her like classes, it is so good. I was so angry the first three three, four weeks. I was like, and then my life took took off. So I I I owe a lot of it to to to myself, because I know Barbara's gonna be like, it's it's you. Um, but but also the classes and and the environment and the community. Community.

SPEAKER_01 34:31

I'm so so glad, Elsa. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Thank you. Barbara, that was so much fun. Um, I was gonna sing back, like Deborah, like I think her name's Deborah. I think her name's Barbara, but then I realized it was I wanna get with you. And I'm still doing it, but not quite. Uh that was so much fun. Sincerely. Oh, I guess I haven't been looking at I usually do these without the video, so I'm looking now. Um uh yeah, I'm excited if you haven't checked her out. Um, definitely should at the howling with a ghive.org. And then if you want to grab her book, which I highly recommend, um, do slash book. It's so fun. The artist's way. I did the three months and it changed me. And uh, yeah, I highly recommend to everybody. All right, like, subscribe, do all the things, follow me and her and all the things. Okay, bye! Ilse Will Say is an Intrepid entertainment podcast produced and edited by Jacob Cagle, music by Eric Bacis, and photography by Joel Mysenet, and I am your host, Ilse Sacharya Rivera. The views and opinions expressed on Ilse Will Say are entirely those of the host and guests, and do not reflect the views of any employers, sponsors, or innocent bystanders. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said here should be taken as professional advice, expert opinion, legal guidance, or a reason to DMSU conspiracy theories. We're here for the laughs, y'all. Carry on.