SPEAKER_01 0:02

Why why one L? Why did your mother give you one L? Uh it's because I was uh such a good story. When my mom was pregnant with me, they you know did all the the tests and the they you know got the gender and they thought or the sex and they thought um they were having a boy. So I was supposed to be Michael Glenstein Jr. And then I came out and the nurse was like, I think, I think you have a Michelle instead. And it was a one L Michelle. Yeah, so to be to still a nod to my dad.

SPEAKER_02 0:36

Uh I think we should normalize junior. I knew female women, right? Females generally don't get juniors. No, or the second. Like they don't get the second, but men do. I want that in the name. Right? I want to be a fourth. Hi, and welcome back to Ilse Will Say, the place where we talk about uh my puppeteer son. Welcome back. Uh I'm your host, I'm Ilse, and I'm currently stealing my partner's coffee because I've run out of my own. And today's guest. Oh, it is just a ray of sunshine. Middle name is Joy. I just found that out. Uh she literally played my son in Anakin, um, she's been a puppeteer for 15 plus years. Her show, always, sometimes maybe, has gone to the Edinburgh Fringe Festival and is now playing at Red Twist in Chicago. I mean, she loves ice cream peanut butter and dogs. So you know that she's gonna be a good hang. Please welcome my friend Michelle Stein!

SPEAKER_01 2:00

This is a great intro. Oh my god, can I like just have you follow me around?

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Oh my god, I have so much lyric opera of Chicago, national tours, five-star reviews called A Class Act in Mimon Clowning, political science degree, puppets, puppets won over political science. Uh, you play the trumpet, you juggle, and you walk tightrope. Is that how what I and you think bios are weird? So the fact that you liked uh my intro, yeah, dude, so much. And we were talking, it's been eight years since you played my little son.

SPEAKER_01 2:37

Yeah, it's been eight years since we've seen each other. It's so wild, so much life has happened.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Wild, yeah, dude. So um, yeah, before we get into it, can you give us like a little snippet of where you where are you from?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

Yeah, so I am from like a rural part of Illinois. Um, if you were looking at the state, there's like this little pimple on the west side next to Iowa. Yeah, it looks like a pimple. It like pops out. Some people call it a nose. I was like, that's probably a nicer way to say that. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. But like that, that little like blip is where I'm from. It's a really small town called Andalusia, um, spelled like Andalusia.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Um, okay. Yeah, Illinois has an act for like just having names of other places and mispronouncing them.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Yes. The town over is called, we call it Milan, but it's spelled like Milan. You like Italy. I hate Illinois. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's super cool. Uh so I grew up there and then I I went to school in normal, Illinois. Um then uh I moved up to Chicago right after. I knew like five people that I've been I'm still in Chicago. I've been here uh th 13, 14 years now. So what hap- So did you get a political science degree?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

And then how did you become an actor and and puppeteer?

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Yeah. So uh I got I double majored. So I double majored in political science and acting. Smart.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Yeah, that's what I wish I would have done.

SPEAKER_01 4:14

Well, yeah, I I don't know. I I I think back to college and go, wow, I think I would do it so differently, right? Like, what would you do?

SPEAKER_02 4:25

Because I would have double majored in like marketing or business management and then acting.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Yeah, I think I wouldn't have gone to college. I think I would have at least taken a gap year or more, but like the at 18, 17 even, because I was I graduated high school at 17. Um I hadn't been able to get a big one.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Oh, you were smart. Oh, you were so smart. You are very smart. Graduated. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

I was well, I was just born like I got a June birthday. Um like this idea of that you're supposed to know what your whole life is at that age, and like I need to dedicate because like the idea of college is is for you to get the training so that you can enter the workforce into but at 17 you don't freaking know anything.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Like, even at 18. I I went to school at 18 because I was in early birth, and yeah, like how are you supposed to know?

unknown 5:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Right? You just like pick the thing you like, or you pick the thing your parents told you to do, and then you're throwing like so much money into this, and then you get to the other side and you're like, did I don't not only that, but like while I was in school, I was not a very good student. No, yes, Michelle.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

Tell me everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So I was a very good student in high school, and by very good student I mean I didn't have to I didn't have to try that hard, right? Like I I did my homework the period before it was due. And I did Oh, same. Uh yeah, right? But that meant I didn't have any s study skills. I didn't know how to learn. I just like could read it and was like, okay, it's this and then be done. So I got to college and I was so academically challenged that I didn't know how to be a self-sufficient learner. Um, and I was so preoccupied with the social aspect of college. Like I didn't, I I had friends in high school, but not a lot, and we all went our separate ways. I never dated in high school, and so I was like thrown.

SPEAKER_02 6:34

Right. But it was like I know that that would that happen to me. I was like, I was a yeah, I was a hoax. Right. Uh right.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

I mean, uh, you're tr figuring it out, you know, you're trying, and that's so normal and uh in normal, and it's so like what you is appropriate. But you know, I'm in my my late, I'm now in my late 30s, and I go, God, I just I wish I could learn. I wish I could go back to school and like have the dedicated time to dive into various texts and and classes and have like rigorous uh discourse about things. Um, and I go, oh, I didn't I would I would do it differently now.

SPEAKER_02 7:25

But okay, so if you had that gap year, what would you have done with that gap year?

SPEAKER_01 7:30

I realistically, I probably would have gotten a job. I probably would have spent I probably would have like stayed where at home. And that was like such a big thing for me, is like for me to go to school, it was a way to leave my town. It was a way to get out.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

And so in that regard, I I think it it was the right move. But in other ways, I go, I could have stayed home and gone to community college. I could have saved a lot of money. I could have tried things there to figure out what I wanted to do.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Um so are you where you want what are you doing the thing that you want to be doing? Because from out here, you're thriving. Like from out here looking in, legitimately, like you're thriving. You're doing the things. Thanks.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yes, yeah. I am I I do feel really lucky. Like I am doing what I want to be doing. I am like uh a few years ago, I had kind of a big life thing happen because I was working a like a day job and a corporate job, and but it that takes a lot of energy and a lot of quite literally time. Um and a big life thing happened, and it just made me go, is this what I want wanna be doing? Is this is this my purpose in life? Like, am I put on this earth to be working HR? Um, and so when I phrase it that way.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

A lot of creatives go into HR. I'm not gonna lie. I have a lot of friends who go in.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

It makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

We care for people. We care for people, and like there's no shade that I think it's an honorable profession. I think there are a lot of I I see a lot of uh artists taking various paths away from art making, and I think that is beautiful. I think that is wonderful because I don't ever think it's an ending. I think it's a a detour or a way to go live life. And and whether you are actively making art or you're not, you're always an artist. And you take your like lived life with you when you make art, right? The the you have to live life to be able to come back to the the canvas or to the script or to the whatever it is you're working on.

SPEAKER_02 9:47

And and speaking of that, how did you bring your lived experience into your one woman show Always Sometimes Maybe? How did how was that?

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Oh, it's been three years in the making, honestly. Like it's um I s I and if we're like from the idea.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Take it to the Edinburgh Festival. I dare to do that. That's I'm so jelly. That's incredible. That's incredible. And are we taking it again, or did you take it a second time?

SPEAKER_01 10:17

I've taken it I've taken it twice. Um and and now I I think that chapter of of it is done. Uh so there's like I could go on and on about like the fringe, and it it is truly magical. It is like adult art summer camp. Um and so if you have the means and ability to go, even like bring a show, don't bring a show, go and like just experience it. Is it truly is there's nothing else like it. Um but if bringing a show, then I have so many follow-up questions around like what are you hoping to get out of it? What is the what is kind of the target? What can you define success for yourself? Like you feel successful when um because it's set like you're competing and it it not that it is a competition, but to understand that like there are over 4,000 shows at any hour in the day.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

Yeah, my friend was saying he saw a show inside of a taxi, like yeah, what I saw one in sauna inside of a sauna. Oh, that was so cool. Did you actually were you actually in a towel and like in the sauna?

SPEAKER_01 11:29

Like at the time, yeah, you were in a yeah, you were in a swimsuit, and they it was a really it was an amazing uh they like built the whole structure, like the whole sauna structure. They could fit like 40, 50 people at a time, and they had different, like every hour and a half, they had a different type of sauna experience. So they had like just kind of morning sunrise, kind of quiet, and then they would have um uh I always went to the evening one because it worked with my schedule. Uh, but they had like it ended in like a disco rave.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Oh that's it was great. It was a lot of fun. Oh, that's amazing. Okay, but Yersha, how did you yeah?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

So I s the idea of it came during the pandemic when uh, you know, with that forced stop, and I kind of like took all of these various acts that I had made over the few years and kind of like laid them all out and said, What do I got? And I started to realize a lot of them were asking the same question and just kind of in different ways of like, and the question it was those acts were asking was how much space am I allowed to take up?

SPEAKER_02 12:42

And so I was like, ooh, uh that is a that is a deep question.

SPEAKER_01 12:47

Yeah. So I started like writing um and uh just kind of like jotting things down, and then I kind of put it away and I was like, I don't know. I'm tired of I would I so I join I rejoined the workforce in the in like that corporate HR job and kind of would occasionally do uh somebody else's art, but then I went and saw um my friend's solo show called Memorabilia uh by John uh Jean Claudio, and it was this like spectacular one-person show that was so heartfelt and funny, and he's he's just a brilliant clown. And I walked out of there and went, because uh before the show, um Jean's uh partner and director, Raquel, uh gave this really beautiful uh pre-show speech and was basically talking about how Jean had had this idea for like five years, and it was like you kind of have to like shitter get off the pot, like make it or don't, and shut up about it. And I that like whoo, I was like, oh no, I gotta do it. Um yeah, so I I started working on it and I uh wrote a draft of it and then uh workshopped it, and then I did like a public workshop of it two years ago now. And that is an unrecognizable thing to what it is now. It's gone through so many iterations and so many life cycles, but uh but the show itself is uh the little spiel is that uh it is a solo puppet clown show about a janitor so lonely she makes her friends out of rubbish. Uh exactly. That is pretty sweet. It's a pretty sweet show. Um it's this character that is so like so lonely, right? Like janitors are often um ignored and become invisible and add to the fact that she struggles so socially to connect and to communicate. And so we just kind of watch her uh build her friends. Like every puppet is built live in front of the audience. Nothing is kind of like does it change every uh every show? Like uh the interactions with the audience change every performance. Uh the puppets are always the same. I know how to just construct them. Um for the audience, they get to see the magic of how you can how anything can be imbued with life, um, and how you can create a character quite literally out of garden.

SPEAKER_02 15:31

It's so sweet. This is the sweetest show. It's so you too, man. That's so you. You're so sweet. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. And yeah, like like I I mentioned earlier, like the way that we met was that um we were in a show, Anna Karin in a over at Lifeline. No, yeah, Lifeline. Because there's lifetime, there's timeline, there's like a lot of lives and times. Um and you uh puppeteered my like six-year-old kid, Seriosha. Sher Sharosha? I can't say it ever. Uh yeah. You got it, you got it. Yeah, and that was something that was really interesting because I you know I've never worked with puppets, and you are a true master. So I can't even imagine constructing the puppet in real time and then bringing it to life. And you are you, I remember were so good at there are folks I've seen a lot of puppet shows actually. Um but there are folks that are very the puppet, you see more of the puppeteer than the puppet. And I thought you were really good at just almost like vanishing. Like you were so good at just you're there and then you're kind of not, and only the puppet, you know, like moves and acts and and because I I I mean I never looked at you. Like w in the show, like it was never like, oh, Michelle's you know, it was always like the puppet, you know, the yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

What's wild is I look at it and I I think my face is too far forward. I think I Oh yeah, I look at it now and I'm like, oh, I should be further back. I should let this, but instead I was like, We're always our biggest judges. Like we're always yeah, yeah. Um and like, you know, eight years later, eight years more of puppetry experience, you know, you you get stronger, better, faster.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I uh I I try to ask this, I forget sometimes, but I have it in front of me this time around. Um what does it mean to be a a decently happy human being? Since Lou is is the character's name, right? Lou? Yeah. Um Lou's going through that journey of of like loneliness and building their friends. I feel like there's like innate happiness as well, right? Like building your community, build building those relationships. How how are how do you stay happy?

SPEAKER_01 18:38

I think I think happiness is something that comes and goes. I don't know if it's a consistent state. Um I yeah, my husband and I talk about this a lot. Uh, because we're like, and we've started to reframe the question not are you happy, but are you satisfied? Um do you have satisfaction or or fulfillment? And because those feel like states that you can maybe um hold on to that feeling. That's interesting. My word is peaceful.

SPEAKER_02 19:10

Ooh, peaceful. Yeah, it might be. I like that word. Yeah. Yeah. Because that's something you can control to some extent, right? Like within you. Yeah. I like fulfillment though, though.

SPEAKER_01 19:22

Yeah, are you fulfilled? Um can hold frustration and anxiety and and joy. I can't.

unknown 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:38

In 2026, maybe I think we all do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:45

Oh, I love that reframe.

SPEAKER_01 19:48

Yeah, in that regard, yes, I feel like I am very fulfilled and um and really blessed to have a really gorgeous group of people around me and family. Um and I'm lucky to to have a roof over my head and good food to eat. And so there's not a lot that I, you know, am wishing for. And that feels really, really lucky and um grateful for.

SPEAKER_02 20:18

Yeah, that's amazing. And if you had one piece of advice for little Michelle or somebody who is like little Michelle, uh, what would you give them? Oh, I would say. Your face further from the puppet. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

Yeah, put your face further back. Nobody cares what you look like. Step back. And don't don't second guess yourself so much.

SPEAKER_02 20:43

Yeah. Oh, I have been trying to tell myself, like, don't don't look back. And by that I mean like every email I send, I like reread it after the fact. Or like when I post something, I will go watch it. I'm like, have I looked at every angle that I will not be made fun of? Yeah. It's just like, stop second guessing, stop looking back. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I like replay whole conversations in my life.

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Oh my god, every single moment. Every single moment.

SPEAKER_01 21:16

I know. And then I like eat myself up being like, oh, did they think I did I say that joke wrong? Did they did they take offense to it? Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:25

And I I the vulnerability hangover is real. It is so real. Yeah. Especially even with a podcast. Yeah. I think that's what I love about the podcast is like I have to for it to be fun and enjoyable for me and other people and my guests, like I there's a certain vulnerability that has to come through, right? And some authenticity. But then like that's what I love about it. It's like I have to do it every week. And it's almost like a muscle. Like the vulnerability just gets smaller and smaller in in that, like, I um not the vulner I should say the vulnerability hangover gets smaller and smaller. Um, yeah, because it doesn't happen anymore. Um, so maybe you just need a podcast, Michelle. I will listen to you. Oh I don't know about that. All right. What I do know is that we're gonna do some hot cakes. They're like hot takes, but they stack up. We're gonna put 60 seconds on the clock. Michelle, are you ready? Okay. Best ice cream spot in Chicago.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Oh, uh Margie's ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

Yes, thank you. I was gonna say that if you didn't. Uh, worst thing a puppet has ever done to you on stage. Oh, their arm fell off. Oh no. Peanut butter, crunchy, smooth, or straight from the spoon? Straight from the spoon. Best trash find of all time.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Ooh. Oh, there's too many. That's too hard. Uh I found like dresser. I found a dresser. Ooh.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Uh, is the Edinburgh fringe haunted? Places of it are. Snack that got you through the fringe. Oh, uh, oh, oh, um, uh crumpets. Do puppets have souls? Yes. Dreamroll, human or puppet? Oh, puppet. If your trash came alive tonight, what would it say about you?

SPEAKER_01 23:37

Please just let us die.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Just let us go. Thank you for playing. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

That was so What are crumpets? Remind me what crumpets are. Crets are um, they're like uh like a spongy uh bread sort of thing that have like lots of holes in them. And you uh can toast them, and they're you it's like a it's like a sourdough meets a uh uh English muffin, sort of.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

Oh, I don't know. But I do like sourdough. Yeah, it it it's it's it's akin to an English muffin only in the shape. Gotcha in that it has holes. But other than that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Yeah, gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay, I'll have to try some. Yeah. It's been my dream to go to the fringe. I should just go. Like, just to go.

SPEAKER_01 24:34

I don't want to like squash the excitement about it, but like I also want to be really transparent. It takes a fuck ton of money. Like, to be brutally honest, it is not a cheap thing to do. Like you have to pay for everything, yeah. For everything. We're talking like the venue, uh, marketing, and people don't know that.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

I mean, I looked into it and that's what deterred me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

Yeah, and and it just I don't want it to be uh like a a poo-poo, but I want folks to like have eyes wide open of like this is this is a big financial investment. It didn't used to cost as much as it does now. Um it always is expensive as Americans you just the travel, right? Like just getting there. But like the the city of Edinburgh hasn't put a cap on housing, like costs. And so finding housing alone can run you like $1,500 for three weeks. Like yeah, it's yeah, it's a really, really expensive endeavor. Um, and it's not impossible. There are ways to fundraise, there are ways to find um financial backers.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

It takes time. Like if you don't have money, you just need time and energy, right? Like if you have time, you so it's like that whatever the triangle is, it's like you either have money, time, and something else, and energy or something. And like you can only you usually only have two. Yeah, yeah, you can't have that trifecta. Yeah, you can't have it all. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's but it is incredible, and it was wonderful to see. Um, and you've inspired me sincerely. Uh yeah, it's incredible. Um, but we do get a little woo and a little weird on this podcast. Do you have any ghost stories, any woo-woo things, any anything? I mean, your your trash came to life on stage. So I feel like there's some yeah, there's some magical elements. Also, somebody said the weirdest thing that they believe in is Doritos with yogurt, you know? So it like can be that it can be Yeah, I know that was weirder than anything else I've heard.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

I do believe in ghosts. I don't believe in the the like this idea of them haunting, because I think that removes their um their soul a little bit. Like, but I do believe in ghosts because they were it's the soul of somebody. And so um when uh my father passed away uh a few years ago, um, afterwards it was like you know, six months had gone by or something, and I was house sitting for my friends. Um now they had at the time two dogs, and that's kind of who I was looking out for. Um, but more importantly, they have two children and that they uh was not in the house, they like took the kids with them, but they were potty training them. I swear this is important to the story. They had they had one of those little toilets that, like, when you use it, it sings a song, right, to encourage positive reinforcement. Michelle, there's nothing creepier than a little kid or like a little kid like tune.

SPEAKER_02 27:40

Oh, yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

So I'm in the living room, it's just me and the two dogs, and I'm just reading uh my book, and then from the bathroom, which is clear across the house, I hear the little song play, and I'm like, that's weird. But I think it maybe something fell off and like fell into it to cause it. And so I get up to go check, and as I get up, in the bedroom, which is on the opposite side of the bathroom of the house, um, their Alexa starts to play a song at the same time. Stop it, and then I'm like Stop it, Michelle, stop it. Wait, it gets so much better. No, keep going with better. So, yeah. So these two songs are playing, and so I'm stuck in the middle of the house, which is actually the kitchen, and then the auxiliary fan of the oven turns on. And so I've got all these things happening, and I stop and I just go, hey dad, and then they all turn off.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

My head's gonna blow the fuck off.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

My head's gonna blow off. Yeah, holy I have chills all over my body. I should shave my legs. Oh my god. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

Yeah, so I I firmly believe in ghosts, but I believe them to be like these really beautiful presences that what a gift. It was so beautiful. I'm so lucky.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh, yeah, that's incredible. That's incredible. Yeah, uh, that's amazing. Oh my god, I have full body chills. I have full I am full believer. Um, oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Yeah, that is incredible. Yeah, I think I think ghosts get a bad rep. And I think it's marketing towards Halloween. Yeah, I think it's all marketing.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Yeah. It really is. And like the why give them give them a chance. Give them a chance. Yeah, why not? They they lost they like the ghost also lost somebody. You know, they're trying to yeah, yeah, trying to reconnect.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yeah. So oh wow, full body chills. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Um, that's beautiful. Uh well, I can't wait your to see your one woman show about that. Uh yes, the grief show. It's coming. Um, maybe we rebrand it to like the ghost show, and then people like, then it's like a beautiful story, but then they're all like, man, I wanted to be scared. And you're like, no, sorry. This is actually loving and joyful. Um and you will like it. Yeah. Um that's yeah, that's basically how I think like we should rebrand Halloween. Like, like I wanna I wanna make like a scary, quote unquote scary show, and then like it's actually about love, acceptance, and joy. Yeah, like you just those are so scary, actually. Those are really scary sometimes too. Oh, well, somebody said to me recently, um, you don't like go to therapy to accept more pain. Like, you can always do that. You go to therapy to accept more love and joy, and I was like, I'm like, geez, Louise. Yeah, how deep is that shit, man? I was not ready for my friend to drop that in. Yeah, like it is, yeah. Joy, joy, your middle name. Yeah, it was it was always there from the beginning. Um, but your show is still happening, right? It is uh today. It's gonna be performed today because this is gonna be uh done in like a couple weeks, so yes, so today. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Yes, it's happening at Red Twist. Yeah, Red Twist Theater, which is in Edgewater in Chicago. Um it's happening at 7:30 p.m. They have this really cool program called One on Wednesdays, and basically what it is is um one-person shows can uh apply to be a part of this program, and they accept it to run for like six weeks on top of their main stage set. And so what they do is they try to, yeah, they try to pair shows that feel like they would live on the set that is already existing, and so um the set that I'm performing on top of is like this like church attic that's kind of cramped and has all this like I like that, yeah, yeah. There's some really good stuff. Um, and they've been so wonderful. Um, so uh I've done it four times, and we've got two more to go on October 28th and November 4th, and then that'll be the last time, as far as I know, that it'll be happening. Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Well, yeah, please send me the recording of it. I would love to watch it. Um thank you so much for being on the podcast. This was so much fun. You're the best. Oh my god, thank you. Oh, you're the best. My little puppet son is all grown up. Michelle! Oh my god, it was so much fun. Okay, I forgot to tell her that um she changed my life because this woman was freaking doing like ab workouts before the show every time, and her abs looked incredible, and for the longest time I would do planks for five minutes because that's what she told me to do, and it worked, and I have stopped since. But now I think I'm gonna go back to planking because of these this woman's abs because they're incredible. I I can't believe I forgot about that and I forgot to say it. So, Michelle, I'm saying it now. You have incredible, incredible abs. Okay, now that I got that out of the way, um, please follow Michelle Stein on uh all the social medias. Go to her show tomorrow Wednesdays, please. She's incredible. Like, subscribe, do all the things. Thank you so much. Okay, bye. Do some flanking because it's awesome. Well, it's not awesome, but it'll give you really amazing albums of trouble. Okay, bye! Ilse Will Say is an Intrepid Entertainment podcast produced and edited by Jacob Cagle, music by Eric Fakis, and photography by Joel Mysenet. And I am your host, Ilse Sacharya Rivera. The views and opinions expressed on Ilse Will Say are entirely those of the host and guests and do not reflect the views of any employers, sponsors, or innocent bystanders. This podcast is for entertainment purposes only. Nothing said here should be taken as professional advice, expert opinion, legal guidance, or a reason to DMSU conspiracy theories. We're here for the laughs, y'all. Carry on.